are gold coins considered tangible personal property
WebAny coin containing gold In addition, any coin (s) packaged in a way that would lead you to believe they have an additional value, probably are, such as sealed mint or proof packaging, or occasionally they are in a coin flip holder. The bullion value at the time of the donation is 40K and the charitable organization immediately sells the coins (unrelated use for the charity) . Experienced Estate Planning Attorney, Elga A. Goodman, can help you with all your estate planning needs. Also, thank you for the article you wrote, Chris. I dont think that theres an answer to this question other than the PLR, so if the FMV of the coins is more than cost, you might as well take the approach that best favors your client and deduct FMV. And I'm sure you would submit the charity's letter as evidence. of the other writing. And a judge might just be the one to do it. That's not the OP's case. But if you would like it to be, its an interesting position by the IRS, because it flies in the face of your notion that if you can see it and touch it, and if it's subject to sales tax, gift tax and estate tax, it MUST be tangible personaltyregardless of holding purpose. 2023 Bankrate, LLC. Our real estate reporters and editors focus on educating consumers about this life-changing transaction and how to navigate the complex and ever-changing housing market. Rul. If we did, Dennis, we have a realization event every time there was inflation or deflation - you know, as purchasing power changes. Yah I read that one (at least some of including the section on coins, anyway). If there is value other than as a medium of exchange the coin is tangible personal property. 408(m). Our mission is to provide readers with accurate and unbiased information, and we have editorial standards in place to ensure that happens. The Regan era coins are tangible personal property that can included in the Estate of a Non-Resident Alien. The Canadian Maple Leaf is "money" It has a defined currency value. I'd also be fine treating these coins like stock. And the term is used in different ways in the numismatist world. Who knows? Collectibles are taxed as capital gains or losses similar to stocks and bonds The central question here is whether American Eagle gold bullion coins, having no numismatic value, donated to a charity, are tangible personal property for purposes of IRC 170(e)(1)(B) that limits the charitable contribution deduction to the donors cost basis. We maintain a firewall between our advertisers and our editorial team. (2) Notwithstanding paragraph (1), if the writing has not been found or is not available Take our 3 minute quiz and match with an advisor today. (Might also want to try paying your local property taxes with onesee how much credit they'll give youor, just ask Mr. Klein (Crummey vs. Klein Indep. They are a lot of someone's opinion. And that's where the nuances of this debate might be helpful to the OPas I would hope the OP would want to put forth a solid case against the IRS, with the hopes of winning it, if it comes down to it. The term tangible personal property is generally understood to mean items that can be felt or touched. The Revenue Ruling (and the PLR) both say qualifying exchange. The piano that you own, which you utilized to write the song, is considered tangible personal property. On the realization front, which would include 1031 in my view, Section 61 is broad and easy. acquired for their historical, artistic, collectable, or investment value apart from We follow strict guidelines to ensure that our editorial content is not influenced by advertisers. So, given the current state of Sec 170, I'm not so sure we'll be able to easily "slot" our coin into a particular genre of property. Stay up-to-date with how the law affects your life. then the writing omitting the statement is invalid to the extent of its inconsistency We value your trust. What is a bundle of rights in real estate? This compensation may impact how and where products appear on this site, including, for example, the order in which they may appear within the listing categories, except where prohibited by law for our mortgage, home equity and other home lending products. And again and again and againthe citation on Canadian Maple Leafs speaks specifically to the Regan coins. The law also (in all cited cases) makes a clear distinction between currency value and market value. If you guys are thinking, "Dennis seems to be focusing on the status quo and ignoring the fact that the U.S. has started minting gold coins again," you would be right. statement as to the date of its execution, and if the omission results in doubt whether There are also cited rules that came about after Canada decided to mint gold coins, and there is no way you can either make a currency distinction between US and Canadian coins or take the position that the ruling on Canadian coins would not apply to US coins (at least not without incurring the frivolous position penalty). Rev. I report the value as income (realization). 1.170A-13(c)(2). Web91 Likes, 4 Comments - Angel Irene (@_angel_irene) on Instagram: "Posted @withregram @rizzaislamix READ CAPTION for SOME solution IDEAS: This i" Anyway, I get it. Couldn't have anything to do with recognition of the fact that it's tangible personal property, could it? He offers no evidence to support this position and apparently he seems to think that OP should be comfortable walking into Tax Court with nothing but the language of the PLR. Reg. You want to take the opposite position, but you have nothing but hearsay to rely upon. Those states are Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire and Oregon, although localities in Alaska may impose taxes on tangible property.. Go find a charity that will take your position. Heating and air conditioning equipment installed by the owner are examples. Going down the 1031 path will get us nowhere in this inquiry. Of course, they've never defined "circulation." I guess we could say since OP's coins *aren't* all that, then OP's coins are not tangible personalty, for Section 170 purposes, per that RR. Goodman Law | Attorney Advertising, 14 Ridgedale Avenue, Suite 254, Cedar Knolls, NJ 07927 | Phone: 973.567.3849, Information accurate as of the publication date of 2014, Legal Blog For Elder Law and Estate Planning In New Jersey, Estate Planning Questions About Tangible Personal Property, Website Design by Omnizant - View site in new window, Elder Law From an Estate Planning Perspective, The Difference Between Executors, Trustees, and Guardians, Avoiding the Pitfalls of Trust and Estate Administration, Divorced Parents with Special Needs Children, Estate Lawyer Planning for Solo Boomers, Estate Planning: Telling your Children What Youre Planning and Why. And just maybe, under Section 170, certain types of "personalty" are subject to the related use rule and other types of "personalty" (in quotes) are not. Given the potential for error, its best to consult with an attorney. Of course, even if treated as money, IRS could say, "Fine, you get to deduct the face value." Find a personal loan in 2 minutes or less. What to do when you lose your 401(k) match. So, not sure why you think the charity is taking your position. If I'm right on the ITC, and I'm not saying I am, it's another example of guidance not contemplating a new asset class. Did he reveal the location of this article? For purposes of this subsection, the term collectible shall not include. The Regan era coins are tangible personal property subject to gift tax. Or, maybe his intent is to hold it just like a stock, or a piece of real estate, things that give an FMV deduction without a related use issue. OK. Now Fogel states categorically that the people who say the PLR would have been reversed are just repeating what someone else told them and in actuality have no direct knowledge. But, even if we win on that one, for purposes of 170, we have the problem of valuation: Face vs. actual/intrinsic. You take the position that there is no problem treating bullion and coins differently for purpose of 170. A ruling on the Canadian Maple Leaf does not apply to US minted gold coins Lets say you are a songwriter who has written a chart-topping hit. Circulating, from what I can tell, even though the word has never been adequately defined. These coins are minted by the Republic of South Africa, and I would bet a nickel that the charitable rule at play was written well before the U.S. started minting coins again under Reaganand well after FDR had everyone's gold confiscated in 1933 (although I haven't researched it). unless the time of its execution is established to be after the date of execution Web36 Likes, 12 Comments - Lala Singleton (@lala_baabee_) on Instagram: " READ CAPTION for SOME solution IDEAS: This is not to be taken lightly at all. So, I pointed to the one place in the IRC when there's a relevant reference to Gold - Sec 408 - wherein the gold coins at issue (I'm pretty sure) were carved out as not being treated as a collectible. Taxpayer's should pay tax on the value of stuff they get. Although Dave's post is concise and to the point, which is helpful (thank you, Dave), I have also found Chris's and Dennis's insights helpful as well. LPP includes all or any part of any interest in or any right to the following properties: This isn't my article, but here's some stuff on it: Thanks, Chris. But that's only because the cases didn't need to. It's money for crying out loud. I fail to see the logic in assuming the language "coins not held primarily as a medium of exchange" has relevance only to rare coins when that same language is widely used to apply to all precious metal coins. 3)Is the donation still reported in Section B of the 8283 and does the client still need an appraisal and the 8283 signed by the appraiser, or is it considered a cash donation? Personal property can be broken down into two categories: chattels and intangibles. ? It speaks to rare coins, because as you noted, but would rather forget, the ruling predates. 82-96 -- exchange of bullion for Canadian Maple Leafs qualifies. And you're only talking about those state that actually impose a tax. Gold coins are more akin to stock than a publicly traded ETF holding bullion. Dennis says, "bull," however. This is clear. Apply it if you wantbut it's about "rare coins" that have "acquired value as collector's items." 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